Havel: People do not deserve leaders staying in power for many years
We, Belarusian journalists, had been promised a meeting with a former Czech President Václav Havel even before we left for Prague. So we had enough time to get ready for an interview with this legendary person.
But when we arrived in Prague, it turned out that the politician had fallen ill and we did not know whether the planned meeting would take place. It was postponed twice and finally the secretary of Václav Havel invited us to his office on the day of our departure. There was one term – we had to be brief because the politician was not feeling well.
The office of the former President is situated in the very centre of Prague – in the Old Town. The spacious room is divided into two parts by a row of bookshelves. Havel’s secretary is in the first part that is filled with office equipment. The ex-President works in the second part at a round table. The elderly woman has been working with Havel starting from the time of his dissidence. The bookshelves are made of glass and visitors waiting for a meeting can see very well what the politician is doing. The bookshelves are filled with Václav Havel’s books and the ex-President’s photos with famous people. For example, there is a photo with Princess Diana. There is a small Christmas tree in the corner and candles on the table. Havel was looking through latest newspapers while we were waiting for his invitation and drinking the coffee made by his secretary. Finally he put away the last newspaper and his assistant invited us at the ex-President’s round table. Havel smiled in a friendly way and shook hands with his guests. We turned on our dictation equipment and the President’s assistant brought his dictaphone.
-- The European Radio for Belarus distributed the information about the decrease of the price of Schengen visas for Belarusians with the help of “Civil Belarus”. You signed the appeal together with other famous European politicians. It is a political issue for Belarus. The official authorities told Belarusians: “You see, you are not wanted in Europe!”. Why did you sign that appeal and what do you think about the future of Belarus in Europe?
-- Open borders are the main term for the democratic development of Belarus. It is necessary that printed editions should be able to come to Belarus from Europe and vice versa. It is a must if you want democracy to be established in your country in the future. When we had a Communist regime established here all trips to the West were forbidden. Your regime allows tourism now. I met your students studying here. I think that such contacts are essential for your country. That is why I though that the increase of the price for visas will influence such trips in a negative way.
-- You know, Belarus has not started reforms – neither democratic nor economic ones. The authorities keep threatening people with sorrows that reforms will bring and says that it would be very bad. Judging by your experience, can reforms be less terrifying for the population?
-- Of course, reforms always demand some sacrifice. But the sacrifice will pay for itself hundreds of times. Our people understood it very well but the agreed on the sacrifice. As a result, Czechia reached a much better quality of life over the past 15 years. When we are watching Soviet films we do not want to believe that we lived in that system. We do not want to return to it. We do not want queues for essential goods in the streets. Any reforms bring changes. People who are used to being nurtured from birth till death have a hard time getting used to these changes. Especially elderly people.
-- You used to be a political prisoner and you know that there are political prisoners in Belarus now. Independent mass media are doing everything possible so that these people would not be forgotten. Opposition activists go to pickets with the people’s portraits. But the situation does not change and the hope is fading… How do you think, where should Alyaksandr Kazulin, Andrei Klimau and others, including their families, get their hope from?
-- It is essential that as many people as possible should get to know about it in our time of information technologies. Solidarity and mass media’s coverage are very important. I would like to note that my term of imprisonment could have been three times longer but for mass media’s coverage.
-- Could you please tell ERB listeners what you are occupied with, what you are writing and working at?
-- I wrote a book of memoirs “Reflexions” about my participation in the big politics a year ago. I have finished a play. And I am planning another play too. Moreover, I will take part in writing several scenarios.
-- Rock musicians are more influential than opposition politicians in Belarus now. They are forbidden and do not have an opportunity to give their concerts. Leaders of a number of forbidden bands met the head of the Ideology Department of the President’s Administration some time ago. It evoked a great response. Opinions differed – some people supported the meeting, others were against it. Being a politician and a creative person, do you think there can be any dialogue between creative people and the government and, in particular, with such a totalitarian government as the Belarusian one?
-- Czech rock musicians played a great role in the fight with the regime on the way to democracy in their time. Speaking about such meetings, I think there can be exceptions when it is possible and necessary to have such contacts. It only depends on the context of the meeting and on the side that will be asking questions. If the meeting is only a way of manipulation or if rock musician feel that they are not talking with the authorities as equals it will be very bad. They may simply be involved in a game or manipulation. If those people have their own points of view … then why not? Such contacts are needed.
-- There is a saying that every people deserves its leader. What do you think about it as a writer, philosopher and politician?
-- This saying is well-known here too. It is used quite often. I think that this expression is very situational. It can be applied as a metaphor in some satiations but, in my opinion, it has not been proved by any statistics. I think it is very wrong that some leaders remain in power for many years while their people does not deserve them at all.
-- Thank you very much for the interview. Maybe you would like to tell something to Belarusians?
-- First of all I would like to claim solidarity with the Belarusians and say that certain things have to be done without trying to predict how useful and advantageous they may turn out to be in the future. You just have to do it because you think it is right. You should not lose hope and belief even if your actions are unlikely to give quick results. Some things are done by your soul and you should follow this impulse.
But when we arrived in Prague, it turned out that the politician had fallen ill and we did not know whether the planned meeting would take place. It was postponed twice and finally the secretary of Václav Havel invited us to his office on the day of our departure. There was one term – we had to be brief because the politician was not feeling well.
The office of the former President is situated in the very centre of Prague – in the Old Town. The spacious room is divided into two parts by a row of bookshelves. Havel’s secretary is in the first part that is filled with office equipment. The ex-President works in the second part at a round table. The elderly woman has been working with Havel starting from the time of his dissidence. The bookshelves are made of glass and visitors waiting for a meeting can see very well what the politician is doing. The bookshelves are filled with Václav Havel’s books and the ex-President’s photos with famous people. For example, there is a photo with Princess Diana. There is a small Christmas tree in the corner and candles on the table. Havel was looking through latest newspapers while we were waiting for his invitation and drinking the coffee made by his secretary. Finally he put away the last newspaper and his assistant invited us at the ex-President’s round table. Havel smiled in a friendly way and shook hands with his guests. We turned on our dictation equipment and the President’s assistant brought his dictaphone.
-- The European Radio for Belarus distributed the information about the decrease of the price of Schengen visas for Belarusians with the help of “Civil Belarus”. You signed the appeal together with other famous European politicians. It is a political issue for Belarus. The official authorities told Belarusians: “You see, you are not wanted in Europe!”. Why did you sign that appeal and what do you think about the future of Belarus in Europe?
-- Open borders are the main term for the democratic development of Belarus. It is necessary that printed editions should be able to come to Belarus from Europe and vice versa. It is a must if you want democracy to be established in your country in the future. When we had a Communist regime established here all trips to the West were forbidden. Your regime allows tourism now. I met your students studying here. I think that such contacts are essential for your country. That is why I though that the increase of the price for visas will influence such trips in a negative way.
-- You know, Belarus has not started reforms – neither democratic nor economic ones. The authorities keep threatening people with sorrows that reforms will bring and says that it would be very bad. Judging by your experience, can reforms be less terrifying for the population?
-- Of course, reforms always demand some sacrifice. But the sacrifice will pay for itself hundreds of times. Our people understood it very well but the agreed on the sacrifice. As a result, Czechia reached a much better quality of life over the past 15 years. When we are watching Soviet films we do not want to believe that we lived in that system. We do not want to return to it. We do not want queues for essential goods in the streets. Any reforms bring changes. People who are used to being nurtured from birth till death have a hard time getting used to these changes. Especially elderly people.
-- You used to be a political prisoner and you know that there are political prisoners in Belarus now. Independent mass media are doing everything possible so that these people would not be forgotten. Opposition activists go to pickets with the people’s portraits. But the situation does not change and the hope is fading… How do you think, where should Alyaksandr Kazulin, Andrei Klimau and others, including their families, get their hope from?
-- It is essential that as many people as possible should get to know about it in our time of information technologies. Solidarity and mass media’s coverage are very important. I would like to note that my term of imprisonment could have been three times longer but for mass media’s coverage.
-- Could you please tell ERB listeners what you are occupied with, what you are writing and working at?
-- I wrote a book of memoirs “Reflexions” about my participation in the big politics a year ago. I have finished a play. And I am planning another play too. Moreover, I will take part in writing several scenarios.
-- Rock musicians are more influential than opposition politicians in Belarus now. They are forbidden and do not have an opportunity to give their concerts. Leaders of a number of forbidden bands met the head of the Ideology Department of the President’s Administration some time ago. It evoked a great response. Opinions differed – some people supported the meeting, others were against it. Being a politician and a creative person, do you think there can be any dialogue between creative people and the government and, in particular, with such a totalitarian government as the Belarusian one?
-- Czech rock musicians played a great role in the fight with the regime on the way to democracy in their time. Speaking about such meetings, I think there can be exceptions when it is possible and necessary to have such contacts. It only depends on the context of the meeting and on the side that will be asking questions. If the meeting is only a way of manipulation or if rock musician feel that they are not talking with the authorities as equals it will be very bad. They may simply be involved in a game or manipulation. If those people have their own points of view … then why not? Such contacts are needed.
-- There is a saying that every people deserves its leader. What do you think about it as a writer, philosopher and politician?
-- This saying is well-known here too. It is used quite often. I think that this expression is very situational. It can be applied as a metaphor in some satiations but, in my opinion, it has not been proved by any statistics. I think it is very wrong that some leaders remain in power for many years while their people does not deserve them at all.
-- Thank you very much for the interview. Maybe you would like to tell something to Belarusians?
-- First of all I would like to claim solidarity with the Belarusians and say that certain things have to be done without trying to predict how useful and advantageous they may turn out to be in the future. You just have to do it because you think it is right. You should not lose hope and belief even if your actions are unlikely to give quick results. Some things are done by your soul and you should follow this impulse.
