Stralkouskі: I was not summoned to the dean’s office because of my questions to the President
ERB talked to a 3rd-year student of the faculty of journalism of BSU Syarhei Stralkouski who asked the least pleasant questions during the meeting with the President that took place last week. The student said that the Presidnet was called an enemy of free journalism and compared the same opinions broadcasted on our TV channels to a consensus at a cemetery. Having replied to Syarhei’s questions Lukashenka exclaimed: ask opposition questions! - Were you given any instructions about questions you should not ask the President?
- I heard: ask any questions. That is what our curator said.
- What made you ask such a daring questions?
- Hmm… Daring… Now I see that the question was ordinary. It is very awkward to say: “They call you like that, what do you think about it?” But I had to ask something unreasoned because there were no real questions that would be interesting for journalists there. I do not think that the majority of the present were interested in questions prepared in advance. Maybe about the classmates’ web site… I think questions people were really interested in were not asked. There were no questions of the kind. Many people wanted to do it but they were probably afraid.
- Weren’t you afraid?
- No, I wasn’t.
- Were you satisfied with the President’s answer?
- I knew 80% of the reply. Then: why did I have to ask the question? But we are future journalists. Journalists are not the kind of people who are afraid to bother or cause some after-pains to the President. I felt sorry for all the present in the assembly hall. Of course, he had been asked such questions many times. So it was probably silly to ask it. On the other hand, the problem exists. Not asking questions when the problem exists is ignoring the problem.
- How would have you changed the question now?
- I would have probably asked the same questions about pluralism of opinions or, to be precise, about its absence. I would pronounce some theses that it would have been impossible to dispute. My final questions would have sounded like that: “What do you think about the epithet people have attached to you?”. I should have formulated it more correctly. The main problem was I did not manage to present all arguments because I was too excited.
- Did students ask any questions you liked?
- I can recall the question about Pleshchanitsy. (The question about an urban village having no enterprises and cultural centres and giving no placement for the youth. – Ed.). If they really do something about Pleshchanitsy the girl may become a hero. The 10 seconds that changed the life in Pleshchanitsy.
- Did friends and teachers ask you any questions afterwards?
- Well I was not summoned to the dean’s office or anything. Some people came up and said I did a good thing. Others said they didn’t understand why I had asked that question. It means some people think I did it to show off.
- Do you ask similar questions during lectures?
- It depends. If I see that the person is not adequate in something and that he or she cannot answer my questions it means there can be no dialogue. Then I will not clash with them. I see no sense in it.
THE WAY IT WAS
***
Stralkouskі: -- European official and Belarusian unofficial mass media often call you an enemy of free development of journalism. Their main arguments are: the society in which the pluralism of thoughts exists finances official mass media that cover only one single position. Newspapers that do not support the policy of the government are forbidden to use the word “Belarusian” in their titles. What do you think about the fact that some people call you like this?
Lukashenka: -- I am very calm about it. There are many other names they give me! The last European dictator and something else. Do you know a good saying? You can call me a pot just don’t put me in the oven. That is why I am so calm about it. Speaking about my hostile attitude to journalists… When you were asking the question I hardly managed to resist asking you: tell me at least one unofficial, as you called it, or opposition point of view! Here I am, sitting in front of you, here are our judges, tell me some point of view, criticize me for something. What have I done wrong? I have told you how I chose this way, be it in anguish or not... Criticize me but be honest.
Stralkouskі: I do not want to criticize anyone…
Lukashenka: No, not “anyone” – but me!
Stralkouskі: … I would like to tell you one thing: I think everyone understands it. The consensus, smiles on faces of news presenters, the same opinions… Such consensus can only be at a cemetery. The society cannot develop using only one opinion…
Lukashenka: Absolutely true!
Stralkouskі: It puts the society in danger.
Lukashenka: Where did you see that I did not support different opinions and points of view? I finish a meeting if there is no clash of opinions and no alternative. If the so-called “unanimity” appears it means a failure! Speaking about TV and radio – there are different opinions, watch our TV and listen to the radio more attentively. But there is no that kind of passion when people start scuffles. Are you trying to say that there are independent mass media in the world? Are there?
Stralkouskі: I cannot say that the situation in Belarus and in Russia differs greatly, but there are debates and famous people are invited there. Our TV lacks debates but for the talk show “Choice”. What choice is that? Famous people expressing socially important opinions should be invited there, we do not have it…
Lukashenka: Well, you know, I do not want to interfere in the creative work of our journalists. By the way, it is your problem! I would take them here, those pillars of democracy; let them quarrel with each other! I imagine Shushkevich, a famous person coming to Zimouski and Kaziyatka’s TV. They used to insult them a lot. It was terrible. They mocked at those people – they called them “all those kaziyatkas”, etc. I am sure he will not be allowed there as a leader. Does it mean there is not anyone there if there is no Pyatrous and Sidaraus? There are other people expressing other points of view there.
I see that half of the audience was very skeptical at the beginning: make your speech and we will listen to it… Now there may be fewer of them, but still a lot. I am honest, Syarhei, and you have you own point of view. But, Syarhei, you are the future of your profession, let’s be sincere. You see a show where they are all having a debate, but in reality they have one and the same point of view, one money standard. They told Zhirinovski who used to be our best friend and adherent, to trample me down and he trampled down the Belarusian people too. Now he is waiting in a queue to meet me. Sorry, but you insulted me and the people.
Moreover, we have enough mass media expressing other points of view and throwing mud at your President, if he is yours… I watch them rather often to find out more about myself. So, nothing of the kind! But serious mass media cannot be private and ideology cannot be private either. They cannot be private, that is my opinion: they should work for the people. Come if you like, organize debates (the head hears me) and strain your voices but do it for the state. Do not come and say that Americans are good guys because they came and bombed Iraq. Do we need it? Hussein could be bad but it wasn’t Bush who gave us 5 million dollars to build the National Library. And Hussein sent us 0.5 million dollars even though his country was in a blockade. It probably wasn’t a big sum of money for him (let him rest in piece) but he sent it: give this small donation to the President; I want to take part in the construction of the National library too! Why should we treat him bad? Belarus was far away but he did it and Bush didn’t! And nobody else here did it!
That is why it may be because you are still inexperienced, Syarhei, as you have not lived that long. I was the editor of a student newspaper when I was a student. Can you imagine what kind of person I was! I never forgave anything to teachers! We used to fight with the dean even if he just looked at my colleagues (students) in a bad way. And they were constantly forgiving me for everything. Time has passed and now I see that it was a bit too much. But it often happens to us when we are young. I wish it all were on TV, but it should be done for the state. I do not limit any journalists! Ask them how many times I told them – guys, do not make people imagine things about me, show me the way I am, with all my drawbacks or anything. It would be easier for the people. They will see me in one way on TV and in another – in the real life. We have never stifled anyone. Why should I stifle you? I am not in the least afraid of you. I am not the kind of president who is afraid of journalists and who is hiding from them. I am not in the least afraid of you. I can invite you all to any event, be it private or personal. If I go to the baths, you can go too and drink tea, what should I be afraid of? They say: we would like to come to your place and look how you ski. You are welcome, come and ski. Why stand with open mouths looking at the ski track? I have no reason to be afraid of you.
If I limit the interests of journalists, as you call it, I do it for the state. Who said you know what the state needs better than me? However, I can’t think of any journalist I was trying to limit. I told them, go write. All heads of TV channels had a hard time but they took the open way. They couldn’t get home sometimes, that’s what Yury Kaziyatka told me after his analytical programme. He said they were waiting for them in the lobby. And I had to use my security service to protect them. You see, someone did not like what they said! Today people have become cleverer, having understood what it is all about and seeing that the life has stabilized.
They know what stability and determination are worth and mass media can destroy it all in no time. You have the most destructive weapon in your hands! I cannot say that I do not see or do not control all Belarusian mass media (official). At the same time there are opposition editions. If opposition mass media feel the mood of the people and will write truth then, believe me, their print runs will be bigger than those of Yakubovich. Now their print runs and financed from abroad.
As you are journalists, I’m probably saying it in a more emotional way, but get rid of that thought. I often tell my journalists – do not take pity on regional officials, show all the drawbacks, but you should also show something positive that is being done! There should not be such a tendency: it has failed, it has collapsed. Show where it has not collapsed and show where it has twice. It will be useful for the state.
A system of responsibility has been created. There is negative news and tomorrow we get a report that everything has been corrected. In what other country big heads and the Prime Minister give account to journalists?! Tell me! And I know it. There is no other country like that. They have democracy– I do what I want. I paid a lot of money, that’s good, somebody paid more – that’s even better…
Ask only opposition questions!
- I heard: ask any questions. That is what our curator said.
- What made you ask such a daring questions?
- Hmm… Daring… Now I see that the question was ordinary. It is very awkward to say: “They call you like that, what do you think about it?” But I had to ask something unreasoned because there were no real questions that would be interesting for journalists there. I do not think that the majority of the present were interested in questions prepared in advance. Maybe about the classmates’ web site… I think questions people were really interested in were not asked. There were no questions of the kind. Many people wanted to do it but they were probably afraid.
- Weren’t you afraid?
- No, I wasn’t.
- Were you satisfied with the President’s answer?
- I knew 80% of the reply. Then: why did I have to ask the question? But we are future journalists. Journalists are not the kind of people who are afraid to bother or cause some after-pains to the President. I felt sorry for all the present in the assembly hall. Of course, he had been asked such questions many times. So it was probably silly to ask it. On the other hand, the problem exists. Not asking questions when the problem exists is ignoring the problem.
- How would have you changed the question now?
- I would have probably asked the same questions about pluralism of opinions or, to be precise, about its absence. I would pronounce some theses that it would have been impossible to dispute. My final questions would have sounded like that: “What do you think about the epithet people have attached to you?”. I should have formulated it more correctly. The main problem was I did not manage to present all arguments because I was too excited.
- Did students ask any questions you liked?
- I can recall the question about Pleshchanitsy. (The question about an urban village having no enterprises and cultural centres and giving no placement for the youth. – Ed.). If they really do something about Pleshchanitsy the girl may become a hero. The 10 seconds that changed the life in Pleshchanitsy.
- Did friends and teachers ask you any questions afterwards?
- Well I was not summoned to the dean’s office or anything. Some people came up and said I did a good thing. Others said they didn’t understand why I had asked that question. It means some people think I did it to show off.
- Do you ask similar questions during lectures?
- It depends. If I see that the person is not adequate in something and that he or she cannot answer my questions it means there can be no dialogue. Then I will not clash with them. I see no sense in it.
THE WAY IT WAS
***
Stralkouskі: -- European official and Belarusian unofficial mass media often call you an enemy of free development of journalism. Their main arguments are: the society in which the pluralism of thoughts exists finances official mass media that cover only one single position. Newspapers that do not support the policy of the government are forbidden to use the word “Belarusian” in their titles. What do you think about the fact that some people call you like this?
Lukashenka: -- I am very calm about it. There are many other names they give me! The last European dictator and something else. Do you know a good saying? You can call me a pot just don’t put me in the oven. That is why I am so calm about it. Speaking about my hostile attitude to journalists… When you were asking the question I hardly managed to resist asking you: tell me at least one unofficial, as you called it, or opposition point of view! Here I am, sitting in front of you, here are our judges, tell me some point of view, criticize me for something. What have I done wrong? I have told you how I chose this way, be it in anguish or not... Criticize me but be honest.
Stralkouskі: I do not want to criticize anyone…
Lukashenka: No, not “anyone” – but me!
Stralkouskі: … I would like to tell you one thing: I think everyone understands it. The consensus, smiles on faces of news presenters, the same opinions… Such consensus can only be at a cemetery. The society cannot develop using only one opinion…
Lukashenka: Absolutely true!
Stralkouskі: It puts the society in danger.
Lukashenka: Where did you see that I did not support different opinions and points of view? I finish a meeting if there is no clash of opinions and no alternative. If the so-called “unanimity” appears it means a failure! Speaking about TV and radio – there are different opinions, watch our TV and listen to the radio more attentively. But there is no that kind of passion when people start scuffles. Are you trying to say that there are independent mass media in the world? Are there?
Stralkouskі: I cannot say that the situation in Belarus and in Russia differs greatly, but there are debates and famous people are invited there. Our TV lacks debates but for the talk show “Choice”. What choice is that? Famous people expressing socially important opinions should be invited there, we do not have it…
Lukashenka: Well, you know, I do not want to interfere in the creative work of our journalists. By the way, it is your problem! I would take them here, those pillars of democracy; let them quarrel with each other! I imagine Shushkevich, a famous person coming to Zimouski and Kaziyatka’s TV. They used to insult them a lot. It was terrible. They mocked at those people – they called them “all those kaziyatkas”, etc. I am sure he will not be allowed there as a leader. Does it mean there is not anyone there if there is no Pyatrous and Sidaraus? There are other people expressing other points of view there.
I see that half of the audience was very skeptical at the beginning: make your speech and we will listen to it… Now there may be fewer of them, but still a lot. I am honest, Syarhei, and you have you own point of view. But, Syarhei, you are the future of your profession, let’s be sincere. You see a show where they are all having a debate, but in reality they have one and the same point of view, one money standard. They told Zhirinovski who used to be our best friend and adherent, to trample me down and he trampled down the Belarusian people too. Now he is waiting in a queue to meet me. Sorry, but you insulted me and the people.
Moreover, we have enough mass media expressing other points of view and throwing mud at your President, if he is yours… I watch them rather often to find out more about myself. So, nothing of the kind! But serious mass media cannot be private and ideology cannot be private either. They cannot be private, that is my opinion: they should work for the people. Come if you like, organize debates (the head hears me) and strain your voices but do it for the state. Do not come and say that Americans are good guys because they came and bombed Iraq. Do we need it? Hussein could be bad but it wasn’t Bush who gave us 5 million dollars to build the National Library. And Hussein sent us 0.5 million dollars even though his country was in a blockade. It probably wasn’t a big sum of money for him (let him rest in piece) but he sent it: give this small donation to the President; I want to take part in the construction of the National library too! Why should we treat him bad? Belarus was far away but he did it and Bush didn’t! And nobody else here did it!
That is why it may be because you are still inexperienced, Syarhei, as you have not lived that long. I was the editor of a student newspaper when I was a student. Can you imagine what kind of person I was! I never forgave anything to teachers! We used to fight with the dean even if he just looked at my colleagues (students) in a bad way. And they were constantly forgiving me for everything. Time has passed and now I see that it was a bit too much. But it often happens to us when we are young. I wish it all were on TV, but it should be done for the state. I do not limit any journalists! Ask them how many times I told them – guys, do not make people imagine things about me, show me the way I am, with all my drawbacks or anything. It would be easier for the people. They will see me in one way on TV and in another – in the real life. We have never stifled anyone. Why should I stifle you? I am not in the least afraid of you. I am not the kind of president who is afraid of journalists and who is hiding from them. I am not in the least afraid of you. I can invite you all to any event, be it private or personal. If I go to the baths, you can go too and drink tea, what should I be afraid of? They say: we would like to come to your place and look how you ski. You are welcome, come and ski. Why stand with open mouths looking at the ski track? I have no reason to be afraid of you.
If I limit the interests of journalists, as you call it, I do it for the state. Who said you know what the state needs better than me? However, I can’t think of any journalist I was trying to limit. I told them, go write. All heads of TV channels had a hard time but they took the open way. They couldn’t get home sometimes, that’s what Yury Kaziyatka told me after his analytical programme. He said they were waiting for them in the lobby. And I had to use my security service to protect them. You see, someone did not like what they said! Today people have become cleverer, having understood what it is all about and seeing that the life has stabilized.
They know what stability and determination are worth and mass media can destroy it all in no time. You have the most destructive weapon in your hands! I cannot say that I do not see or do not control all Belarusian mass media (official). At the same time there are opposition editions. If opposition mass media feel the mood of the people and will write truth then, believe me, their print runs will be bigger than those of Yakubovich. Now their print runs and financed from abroad.
As you are journalists, I’m probably saying it in a more emotional way, but get rid of that thought. I often tell my journalists – do not take pity on regional officials, show all the drawbacks, but you should also show something positive that is being done! There should not be such a tendency: it has failed, it has collapsed. Show where it has not collapsed and show where it has twice. It will be useful for the state.
A system of responsibility has been created. There is negative news and tomorrow we get a report that everything has been corrected. In what other country big heads and the Prime Minister give account to journalists?! Tell me! And I know it. There is no other country like that. They have democracy– I do what I want. I paid a lot of money, that’s good, somebody paid more – that’s even better…
Ask only opposition questions!
